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	<title>Comments for Or-Tal's Writings</title>
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	<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>entrepreneurship, motherhood, hi-tech</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:49:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Beware the Social Networks! by It&#8217;s Kidsville! &#171; Or-Tal&#8217;s Writings</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/beware-the-social-networks/#comment-1785</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s Kidsville! &#171; Or-Tal&#8217;s Writings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=187#comment-1785</guid>
		<description>[...] Susan Greenfield who was quoted on &#8220;The Mail&#8221;, an article which I already covered in my February post. How young really? My daughter joined on 8th grade. My son at the beginning of his 5th grade. And [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Susan Greenfield who was quoted on &#8220;The Mail&#8221;, an article which I already covered in my February post. How young really? My daughter joined on 8th grade. My son at the beginning of his 5th grade. And [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Full Time Job. Think Full. by Or-Tal</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/think-full/#comment-1666</link>
		<dc:creator>Or-Tal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=356#comment-1666</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Coach. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Coach. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Full Time Job. Think Full. by Ziva Malbin</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/think-full/#comment-1647</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziva Malbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=356#comment-1647</guid>
		<description>ההתמסרות שאת מספרת עליה מעוררת השראה. זוהי אכן התמסרות מתוך מעורבות רגשית  שהיא מפתח להצלחה מהיותה מובילה להתמקדות והנחישות להתגבר על מכשולים.
נושא נוסף ולא פחות חשוב שאת מעלה הוא נושא הרחבת תפישת העשייה שתכלול גם חשיבה. אכן פעמים רבות הכרחי לקבל את שלב הדגירה כעשייה שהרי דברים גדולים רבים לא יוולדו בהעדרה...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ההתמסרות שאת מספרת עליה מעוררת השראה. זוהי אכן התמסרות מתוך מעורבות רגשית  שהיא מפתח להצלחה מהיותה מובילה להתמקדות והנחישות להתגבר על מכשולים.<br />
נושא נוסף ולא פחות חשוב שאת מעלה הוא נושא הרחבת תפישת העשייה שתכלול גם חשיבה. אכן פעמים רבות הכרחי לקבל את שלב הדגירה כעשייה שהרי דברים גדולים רבים לא יוולדו בהעדרה&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mars, Venus and the Social Networks by Ziva Malbin</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/marsvenusocial/#comment-1646</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziva Malbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=360#comment-1646</guid>
		<description>כל הכבוד על הסקרנות, החקרנות והמחויבות למצוא תשובה לשאלה שמעניינת אותך! אהבתי!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>כל הכבוד על הסקרנות, החקרנות והמחויבות למצוא תשובה לשאלה שמעניינת אותך! אהבתי!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Full Time Job. Think Full. by Or-Tal</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/think-full/#comment-1643</link>
		<dc:creator>Or-Tal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=356#comment-1643</guid>
		<description>Thank you! :-)
I think that many teachers actually do the same. If they are the type of teachers who perceive their job as a creative job, then that creative thinking never sleeps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I think that many teachers actually do the same. If they are the type of teachers who perceive their job as a creative job, then that creative thinking never sleeps.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Full Time Job. Think Full. by wmchamberlain</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/think-full/#comment-1642</link>
		<dc:creator>wmchamberlain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=356#comment-1642</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that you are doing for your business what I would love teachers to do, reflectively think about what we are doing. This is not a topic I often hear professionals talking about but it must be the difference between success and failure among many start-ups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that you are doing for your business what I would love teachers to do, reflectively think about what we are doing. This is not a topic I often hear professionals talking about but it must be the difference between success and failure among many start-ups.</p>
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		<title>Comment on School Sweat by De-Panther</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/schoolsweat/#comment-1569</link>
		<dc:creator>De-Panther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=347#comment-1569</guid>
		<description>זה מזכיר לי למה שנאתי את תקופת הלימודים.

בקשר למקצועות ההומניים(ספרות, תנ&quot;ך, הבעה והייתי מוסיף גם היסטוריה):
לדעתי הם חשובים, אבל לא צריך להכניס בהם כל כך הרבה חומר, לפחות לא למי שמתמקד במקצועות ראליים.
העיקר שאנשים ידעו לכתוב.
אני דיסלקט, ובכלזאת מאוד מפריע לי כשאני רואה פוסטים והודעות ברשת מלאים בשגיאות. אנשים שאני מחשיב אותם כגאונים בתחומים שונים ומתנסחים כמו ילד שרק למד לכתוב, זה ממש מפריע לי.
ועכשיו כשחלק גדול מהתקשורת בין האנשים היא באינטרנט - זה ממש מפריע.

אז שילמדו פחות תנ&quot;ך, שילמדו פחות היסטוריה(בכל מקרה אלו מקצועות שכרגע אתה משנן בהם דברים לפני ומבחן ואחריו שוכח), העיקר שילמדו לקרוא ולכתוב כמו שצריך ושילמדו הבעה.
כשרוב התקשורת מתבצעת בכתב - זה חובה.

ובלי קשר, מקצוע שהייתי מתחיל להנחיל מגיל צעיר - כלכלה. זה היה פותר המון בעיות חברתיות שיש היום</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>זה מזכיר לי למה שנאתי את תקופת הלימודים.</p>
<p>בקשר למקצועות ההומניים(ספרות, תנ&#8221;ך, הבעה והייתי מוסיף גם היסטוריה):<br />
לדעתי הם חשובים, אבל לא צריך להכניס בהם כל כך הרבה חומר, לפחות לא למי שמתמקד במקצועות ראליים.<br />
העיקר שאנשים ידעו לכתוב.<br />
אני דיסלקט, ובכלזאת מאוד מפריע לי כשאני רואה פוסטים והודעות ברשת מלאים בשגיאות. אנשים שאני מחשיב אותם כגאונים בתחומים שונים ומתנסחים כמו ילד שרק למד לכתוב, זה ממש מפריע לי.<br />
ועכשיו כשחלק גדול מהתקשורת בין האנשים היא באינטרנט &#8211; זה ממש מפריע.</p>
<p>אז שילמדו פחות תנ&#8221;ך, שילמדו פחות היסטוריה(בכל מקרה אלו מקצועות שכרגע אתה משנן בהם דברים לפני ומבחן ואחריו שוכח), העיקר שילמדו לקרוא ולכתוב כמו שצריך ושילמדו הבעה.<br />
כשרוב התקשורת מתבצעת בכתב &#8211; זה חובה.</p>
<p>ובלי קשר, מקצוע שהייתי מתחיל להנחיל מגיל צעיר &#8211; כלכלה. זה היה פותר המון בעיות חברתיות שיש היום</p>
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		<title>Comment on School Sweat by asher idan</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/schoolsweat/#comment-1550</link>
		<dc:creator>asher idan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=347#comment-1550</guid>
		<description>המבוגרים יעצו לי להפסיק לצייר נחשי בואה פתוחים או סגורים ובמקום זה להתעניין בגיאוגרפיה, היסטוריה, בחשבון ובדקדוק, וכך ויתרתי בגיל 6 על קריירה מזהירה של צייר... על כן נאלצתי לבחור לי מקצוע ולמדתי (עד כאן מהספר הנסיך הקטן)... להשיק קהילות בפייסבוק</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>המבוגרים יעצו לי להפסיק לצייר נחשי בואה פתוחים או סגורים ובמקום זה להתעניין בגיאוגרפיה, היסטוריה, בחשבון ובדקדוק, וכך ויתרתי בגיל 6 על קריירה מזהירה של צייר&#8230; על כן נאלצתי לבחור לי מקצוע ולמדתי (עד כאן מהספר הנסיך הקטן)&#8230; להשיק קהילות בפייסבוק</p>
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		<title>Comment on School Sweat by mike</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/schoolsweat/#comment-1539</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=347#comment-1539</guid>
		<description>Hi Ortal... hope this finds you well.

A very sad post Ortal.... and it seems we have chosen to do this to our children all over the world!

This is adults who have confused-

&quot;harder&quot; with &quot;better&quot;----
&quot;longer&quot;--- with &quot;deeper&quot;--
&quot;school&quot; with &quot;work&quot;----
&quot;memorization&quot; with &quot;understanding&quot;
&quot;rigor&quot; with &quot;more&quot;

I spend a great deal of my time attempting to teach my children that this...and many other cultural messages are not &quot;TRUTH&quot;!!

This is the behavior of &quot;frightened&quot; adults..... and is really of very little value.

The question for me.... how much of this will i participate in and at what level of concern?

I buffer my kids from this nonsense as often and as much as possible.... we will play the game, but at a level that is of my ( the parents ) choosing.  

What i try to focus on is healthy human development....

We and our children are finding that we are living in &quot;toxic cultures&quot;....

What might be done to push back against a system that sees chilren and education as only preparing for ecconomic growth............


It has taken America a very long time to spread a &quot;bill of rights&quot; to ALL of our citizens... we are still working on it!

Here is a list i found- The Student Bill of Rights-

http://mrpullen.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/the-student-bill-of-rights/

1. All students have the right to learn from a teacher who deeply understands her subject matter and who deeply cares about each individual student in her classroom.

2. All students have the right to be safe throughout each school day.

3. All students have the right to meet their own physical needs during school hours (e.g. bringing a snack, getting a drink, being allowed to use the restroom, etc.).

4. All students have the right to enjoy an unstructured recess time at least once a day.

5. All students have the right to be taught by someone who is not reading from a script.

6. All students have the right to be assessed based on improvement, not just raw performance.

7. All students have the right to be appropriately challenged across all subjects.

8. All students have the right to have some measure of choice with regard to at least some of the topics they will study and the assignments they will complete.

9. All students have the right to receive cutting-edge instruction and to spend significant in-class time focusing on current technologies.

10. All students have the right to maintain a vibrant life outside school without being burdened with large quantities of homework.


Not a bad start.... what would you add or subtract?

Wondering...other parents out there.... what do you think?

be well.... mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ortal&#8230; hope this finds you well.</p>
<p>A very sad post Ortal&#8230;. and it seems we have chosen to do this to our children all over the world!</p>
<p>This is adults who have confused-</p>
<p>&#8220;harder&#8221; with &#8220;better&#8221;&#8212;-<br />
&#8220;longer&#8221;&#8212; with &#8220;deeper&#8221;&#8211;<br />
&#8220;school&#8221; with &#8220;work&#8221;&#8212;-<br />
&#8220;memorization&#8221; with &#8220;understanding&#8221;<br />
&#8220;rigor&#8221; with &#8220;more&#8221;</p>
<p>I spend a great deal of my time attempting to teach my children that this&#8230;and many other cultural messages are not &#8220;TRUTH&#8221;!!</p>
<p>This is the behavior of &#8220;frightened&#8221; adults&#8230;.. and is really of very little value.</p>
<p>The question for me&#8230;. how much of this will i participate in and at what level of concern?</p>
<p>I buffer my kids from this nonsense as often and as much as possible&#8230;. we will play the game, but at a level that is of my ( the parents ) choosing.  </p>
<p>What i try to focus on is healthy human development&#8230;.</p>
<p>We and our children are finding that we are living in &#8220;toxic cultures&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
<p>What might be done to push back against a system that sees chilren and education as only preparing for ecconomic growth&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>It has taken America a very long time to spread a &#8220;bill of rights&#8221; to ALL of our citizens&#8230; we are still working on it!</p>
<p>Here is a list i found- The Student Bill of Rights-</p>
<p><a href="http://mrpullen.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/the-student-bill-of-rights/" rel="nofollow">http://mrpullen.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/the-student-bill-of-rights/</a></p>
<p>1. All students have the right to learn from a teacher who deeply understands her subject matter and who deeply cares about each individual student in her classroom.</p>
<p>2. All students have the right to be safe throughout each school day.</p>
<p>3. All students have the right to meet their own physical needs during school hours (e.g. bringing a snack, getting a drink, being allowed to use the restroom, etc.).</p>
<p>4. All students have the right to enjoy an unstructured recess time at least once a day.</p>
<p>5. All students have the right to be taught by someone who is not reading from a script.</p>
<p>6. All students have the right to be assessed based on improvement, not just raw performance.</p>
<p>7. All students have the right to be appropriately challenged across all subjects.</p>
<p>8. All students have the right to have some measure of choice with regard to at least some of the topics they will study and the assignments they will complete.</p>
<p>9. All students have the right to receive cutting-edge instruction and to spend significant in-class time focusing on current technologies.</p>
<p>10. All students have the right to maintain a vibrant life outside school without being burdened with large quantities of homework.</p>
<p>Not a bad start&#8230;. what would you add or subtract?</p>
<p>Wondering&#8230;other parents out there&#8230;. what do you think?</p>
<p>be well&#8230;. mike</p>
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		<title>Comment on School Sweat by Hadass Eviatar</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/schoolsweat/#comment-1531</link>
		<dc:creator>Hadass Eviatar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=347#comment-1531</guid>
		<description>Good points! My schedule in high school was similar to your daughter&#039;s. Luckily I enjoyed the Bible and grammar so it wasn&#039;t so hard for me. I didn&#039;t have extra math classes, though.

What would happen to your second grader if he just didn&#039;t do some of the homework? Would he flunk second grade? I do tend to limit how much my grade school kids do, because sometimes it is just too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points! My schedule in high school was similar to your daughter&#8217;s. Luckily I enjoyed the Bible and grammar so it wasn&#8217;t so hard for me. I didn&#8217;t have extra math classes, though.</p>
<p>What would happen to your second grader if he just didn&#8217;t do some of the homework? Would he flunk second grade? I do tend to limit how much my grade school kids do, because sometimes it is just too much.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Games are the new School by Or-Tal</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/gamesnewschool/#comment-1388</link>
		<dc:creator>Or-Tal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=296#comment-1388</guid>
		<description>I must share my recent discovery of Q2L - Quest to Learn - a school, real school, based on games. 
It&#039;s a school in New York, about to open in Manhattan in the coming falls, for grades 6-12.
If you want more information - start here: http://www.q2l.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must share my recent discovery of Q2L &#8211; Quest to Learn &#8211; a school, real school, based on games.<br />
It&#8217;s a school in New York, about to open in Manhattan in the coming falls, for grades 6-12.<br />
If you want more information &#8211; start here: <a href="http://www.q2l.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.q2l.org/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Games are the new School by Or-Tal</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/gamesnewschool/#comment-1171</link>
		<dc:creator>Or-Tal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 07:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=296#comment-1171</guid>
		<description>Wow! Neal, thanks for the detailed reply. This is really insightful for me.
All in moderation is clearly the key phrase in adoption of any feature, let alone when it is new and the experience with it is little, as with games in education now.
I don&#039;t believe games should in any way take over the classroom, but I do believe there are games that can enhance learning. I also think there are many gaming features that can be used in the classroom without turning the classroom into a game. One good example is the ability kids have in games to &quot;do this level again&quot; - and again, and again - until they do it right and can pass to the next level. I have met several teachers who adopted this approach to tests. They will allow the students to take the test again and again until the student is satisfied with the grade.

As for external reinforcement - sure, the ideal situation would be if any students could find his or her internal motivator. But the reality is different. It could be because students are not interested in the particular material presented to them, or because the fail to see the relevancy of a curriculum to real life, or because it&#039;s difficult for them. There could be many reasons. That&#039;s when external reinforcement can contribute. Depending on how and what this reinforcement is, it can translate to an internal motivator in time. Sometimes it justs serves as a kick start. It should definitely not take the place of internal motivators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Neal, thanks for the detailed reply. This is really insightful for me.<br />
All in moderation is clearly the key phrase in adoption of any feature, let alone when it is new and the experience with it is little, as with games in education now.<br />
I don&#8217;t believe games should in any way take over the classroom, but I do believe there are games that can enhance learning. I also think there are many gaming features that can be used in the classroom without turning the classroom into a game. One good example is the ability kids have in games to &#8220;do this level again&#8221; &#8211; and again, and again &#8211; until they do it right and can pass to the next level. I have met several teachers who adopted this approach to tests. They will allow the students to take the test again and again until the student is satisfied with the grade.</p>
<p>As for external reinforcement &#8211; sure, the ideal situation would be if any students could find his or her internal motivator. But the reality is different. It could be because students are not interested in the particular material presented to them, or because the fail to see the relevancy of a curriculum to real life, or because it&#8217;s difficult for them. There could be many reasons. That&#8217;s when external reinforcement can contribute. Depending on how and what this reinforcement is, it can translate to an internal motivator in time. Sometimes it justs serves as a kick start. It should definitely not take the place of internal motivators.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Games are the new School by Neal</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/gamesnewschool/#comment-1168</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=296#comment-1168</guid>
		<description>Hi,
I am a career change teacher who came from a career in games that included designing, programming, and producing (project management). I would advise some caution and moderation in combining the two fields.

At an industry conference, one of the original EverQuest designers gave an insightful overview of how to make an addicting online game.
 
He cited research done with lab mice to teach them how to navigate a maze, and that the principle for the pacing and magnitude of rewards was the same. You give the user little crumbs in the expected path at a pace of roughly once a minute - this holds their short term attention. You also have medium sized rewards (medium chunks of cheese) interspersed at roughly once every hour or two - this serves as a near-term goal. Finally, you have rare, but attainable, big rewards that can take a week or more to reach - the prospect of those big rewards keep the player playing even after they have collected one of the medium rewards. You could think of it as a more refined &quot;carrot in front of the horse&quot; design theory.

If you look for it, you can find this design pattern everywhere you look in modern online games. While I think this is a very effective approach at retaining customers and getting a usage fee every month from them, I&#039;m not sure that the model of constant external reinforcement is something that we should be conditioning our students with. Many jobs and hobbies have &quot;gruntwork&quot; phases where we have to persist without the benefit of constant validation, and we need to give students a safe place to practice struggling and learning with only their internal long-term goals as motivators.

The social world of online games (or even chat/messaging) can be a double-edged sword in my opinion. I don&#039;t always see virtual in-game confidence and bravado translate into a sustained healthy self-image of players in the real world. If the game is an escape or avoidance of coping with non-virtual social situations, then parents and teachers still need to encourage students to grow in their handling of face-to-face situations. The self-esteem boost of an in-game accomplishment can turn out to be hollow when faced with un-met demands of college applications, dating relationships, or job preparations.

As for the learning in existing games, my view is that the amount of learning from a given game situation can vary greatly from group to group and from person to person. Lucas mentions the group challenges and problem solving in online games in the video you posted, but the amount of learning is often much greater for the groups who first attempt a game challenge than it is for those who follow. Many guilds wait for strategy guides to come out before attempting challenges, and are following a pre-written recipe, with the main remaining challenges being coordinating timing and hand-eye coordination. Think of the difference between a true inquiry-based lesson and an old-school lab where students follow step-by-step and just concern themselves with &quot;doing it right&quot; and &quot;getting the right answer&quot;, without developing understanding. You can get both situations in the same game challenge depending on group dynamics and the availability of guides or cheats.

I used to think that anyone playing a game would automatically develop an instinct for the underlying mechanics, or the &quot;laws of physics&quot; if you will. Now I think I was projecting. In my experience, many players do not develop an understanding beyond &quot;this is how everyone does it&quot; or &quot;this is the best way&quot; (without being able to explain why).

This is not to say that I don&#039;t believe that games can enhance the classroom, just that like every previous technology that has come to the classroom, they aren&#039;t a miracle cure. Successful programs will have thoughtful planning, careful implementation, and open-eyed reflection / evaluation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
I am a career change teacher who came from a career in games that included designing, programming, and producing (project management). I would advise some caution and moderation in combining the two fields.</p>
<p>At an industry conference, one of the original EverQuest designers gave an insightful overview of how to make an addicting online game.</p>
<p>He cited research done with lab mice to teach them how to navigate a maze, and that the principle for the pacing and magnitude of rewards was the same. You give the user little crumbs in the expected path at a pace of roughly once a minute &#8211; this holds their short term attention. You also have medium sized rewards (medium chunks of cheese) interspersed at roughly once every hour or two &#8211; this serves as a near-term goal. Finally, you have rare, but attainable, big rewards that can take a week or more to reach &#8211; the prospect of those big rewards keep the player playing even after they have collected one of the medium rewards. You could think of it as a more refined &#8220;carrot in front of the horse&#8221; design theory.</p>
<p>If you look for it, you can find this design pattern everywhere you look in modern online games. While I think this is a very effective approach at retaining customers and getting a usage fee every month from them, I&#8217;m not sure that the model of constant external reinforcement is something that we should be conditioning our students with. Many jobs and hobbies have &#8220;gruntwork&#8221; phases where we have to persist without the benefit of constant validation, and we need to give students a safe place to practice struggling and learning with only their internal long-term goals as motivators.</p>
<p>The social world of online games (or even chat/messaging) can be a double-edged sword in my opinion. I don&#8217;t always see virtual in-game confidence and bravado translate into a sustained healthy self-image of players in the real world. If the game is an escape or avoidance of coping with non-virtual social situations, then parents and teachers still need to encourage students to grow in their handling of face-to-face situations. The self-esteem boost of an in-game accomplishment can turn out to be hollow when faced with un-met demands of college applications, dating relationships, or job preparations.</p>
<p>As for the learning in existing games, my view is that the amount of learning from a given game situation can vary greatly from group to group and from person to person. Lucas mentions the group challenges and problem solving in online games in the video you posted, but the amount of learning is often much greater for the groups who first attempt a game challenge than it is for those who follow. Many guilds wait for strategy guides to come out before attempting challenges, and are following a pre-written recipe, with the main remaining challenges being coordinating timing and hand-eye coordination. Think of the difference between a true inquiry-based lesson and an old-school lab where students follow step-by-step and just concern themselves with &#8220;doing it right&#8221; and &#8220;getting the right answer&#8221;, without developing understanding. You can get both situations in the same game challenge depending on group dynamics and the availability of guides or cheats.</p>
<p>I used to think that anyone playing a game would automatically develop an instinct for the underlying mechanics, or the &#8220;laws of physics&#8221; if you will. Now I think I was projecting. In my experience, many players do not develop an understanding beyond &#8220;this is how everyone does it&#8221; or &#8220;this is the best way&#8221; (without being able to explain why).</p>
<p>This is not to say that I don&#8217;t believe that games can enhance the classroom, just that like every previous technology that has come to the classroom, they aren&#8217;t a miracle cure. Successful programs will have thoughtful planning, careful implementation, and open-eyed reflection / evaluation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Games are the new School by Or-Tal</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/gamesnewschool/#comment-1156</link>
		<dc:creator>Or-Tal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=296#comment-1156</guid>
		<description>Thank you all for your kind replies. I think that in general this is a new school that is forming. Not only does playing games impact learning abilities, but there are many more techniques and strategies derived from games and the games theory that serve for a better education, or education which better suits our present and future global needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you all for your kind replies. I think that in general this is a new school that is forming. Not only does playing games impact learning abilities, but there are many more techniques and strategies derived from games and the games theory that serve for a better education, or education which better suits our present and future global needs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Games are the new School by Cameron Foster</title>
		<link>http://ortals.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/gamesnewschool/#comment-1155</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortals.wordpress.com/?p=296#comment-1155</guid>
		<description>Hi,

Great video - great post.

I reckon we need to get past the &#039;are games educational&#039; question.  Most with (a) gaming experience (b) high-school classroom experience can be convinced that there are dozens of commercially available games that would be of ENORMOUS educational benefit.

The real question is how to convince the Faculty Heads and the Gaming Industry to let it happen.

Faculty Heads (usually, at this time) are going to be slightly older than the general age of gamers - on average.  They will likely see games as a frivolous activity.  They are not 100% resistant, to be sure, but are going to be VERY hard to shift on this issue...and thats before you start talking about the unseemly subject of money.  Oh, and before you start talking about which particular game.

The games industry rarely (if ever) offer an &#039;education licence&#039; on the broad range of games.  And why should they?  If they can sell 30 units for a class, well, that is something they would have been aiming for in the design investment process.  I&#039;ve been looking into the older &#039;bargin bin&#039; games for my school - around the $20 mark - bt even still, our faculty budget would bust just getting enough for 1 between 2.

Are games going to be designed JUST for the education market?  Well, in my opinion, not good ones.  

Here is a great interview and related info.
http://www.iear.org/iear/2009/5/13/sylvia-martinez-show-47-and-interview-6.html

Again, great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Great video &#8211; great post.</p>
<p>I reckon we need to get past the &#8216;are games educational&#8217; question.  Most with (a) gaming experience (b) high-school classroom experience can be convinced that there are dozens of commercially available games that would be of ENORMOUS educational benefit.</p>
<p>The real question is how to convince the Faculty Heads and the Gaming Industry to let it happen.</p>
<p>Faculty Heads (usually, at this time) are going to be slightly older than the general age of gamers &#8211; on average.  They will likely see games as a frivolous activity.  They are not 100% resistant, to be sure, but are going to be VERY hard to shift on this issue&#8230;and thats before you start talking about the unseemly subject of money.  Oh, and before you start talking about which particular game.</p>
<p>The games industry rarely (if ever) offer an &#8216;education licence&#8217; on the broad range of games.  And why should they?  If they can sell 30 units for a class, well, that is something they would have been aiming for in the design investment process.  I&#8217;ve been looking into the older &#8216;bargin bin&#8217; games for my school &#8211; around the $20 mark &#8211; bt even still, our faculty budget would bust just getting enough for 1 between 2.</p>
<p>Are games going to be designed JUST for the education market?  Well, in my opinion, not good ones.  </p>
<p>Here is a great interview and related info.<br />
<a href="http://www.iear.org/iear/2009/5/13/sylvia-martinez-show-47-and-interview-6.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.iear.org/iear/2009/5/13/sylvia-martinez-show-47-and-interview-6.html</a></p>
<p>Again, great post!</p>
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